I mentioned previously that I inherited Pat's 4E books. I tried 4E when it came out, and it wasn't for me. But then Dean ran a pretty fun game using it (before he converted the campaign to 5E), and I had a pretty good time with it...the way Dean ran the game. But honestly, I showed up to more of his games once he converted to 5E, which I like a lot more.
So we've been playing this campaign style dungeon crawl board game. I mentioned that as well. And I was looking at the 4E books the other day, having played some Heroclix with my younger son last weekend (heavily simplified, because I don't really remember the rules for all the powers that well anymore), and thought, "Why don't I try to use these rules to just run some miniatures skirmish games? That's what these rules really do best, after all."
Then I started looking at the Monster Manual. And I'm not so sure I want to do this after all.
The monster stat blocks are so complex, with so many fiddly little powers. I understand letting the players have a selection of powers to choose from, but the monsters just seem so...over done.
I do think a lot of the powers are fairly standardized, so after a bit of experience with it, it will probably get better. But do I really want to spend a bunch of time on this? I could set up some fantasy tactical battles with Chainmail, instead, and that would be a lot simpler.
Anyway, that's a maybe. The idea is still appealing, but I've probably got better things to do with my time.
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Oh, and if anyone's wondering, in the Heroclix game...I was playing with my figures from the 00's. Steven had his figures that he picked up in the US 3 years ago. I had Dr. Doom, Magneto, Kang, Hobgoblin, and Doc Oc. He had Captain America, Iron Man, Thor (Sakkar arena version with swords), Terror, and Hawkeye. I was way over points with my squad, but the newer versions are a lot cheaper for more power. Anyway, he smoked me. Magneto was my only figure to survive, and that's because I had him run away after everyone else went down. I was only able to damage Hawkeye. The game really doesn't work with mixed older and newer figures.
Huh. Never tried Heroclix, though I always thought it was an interesting concept. Is it still being published?
ReplyDeleteYeah, they still make it. It went into a bit of a slump for a few years from what I was reading, but apparently the strength of the supers movies brought it back. But more powerful, of course.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, good to see that blogspot fixed the Google sign in.
ReplyDeleteAs for running 4E, I much preferred the monster stat blocks to 5E's, because with 4E I did not have to look up spells or read blocks of text: the keywords usually said everything at a glance. However, 4E is definitely more of a pain to run than Basic. I felt it balanced the bells and whistles of AD&D/3.5 with an elegance of presentation and transparency.
Huzzah on you being able to comment again!
DeleteI think that if I learned those key words, the 4E monsters would be pretty easy to run. I just need to find time to study them, I guess.
If you have the core 4e DMG, run the short adventure at the back of the book--Kobold Hall. It's basically 5 encounters in a row, so very little prep on your part. I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the monster stat blocks are there.
ReplyDeleteA smart guy like you shouldn't have any problem at all running 4e monsters, especially low-level ones like kobolds. What's even better is that you don't have to hold back. Forget about being a "fair" DM. Play to win. You are Zargon, not Matt Mercer.
Thanks for the tip. I'll take a look at that, as I did get the DMG from Pat.
DeleteAnd while I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me...will my laziness out-weight my interest in a 4E tactical board crawl? I'll keep you posted! :D
The best thing about 4e was the "Points of Light" setting (the Nentir Vale). It was tailor-made for B/X and BECMI/RC games.
ReplyDeleteIf you do run Kobold Hall, I suggest making two of the tiles in front of the sludge pool into a trap. Have some gleaming treasure visible at the bottom of the pool, to entice the PCs to get closer. If a PC steps on one of the tiles, it collapses, dumping the PC into the pool. Make the pool deal 5 cold damage each round, until the PC can climb out. If you're feeling mean, add +2 ongoing cold damage (save ends). As soon as a PC falls into the pool, the kobolds attack with ranged weapons.
Add an NPC animal like a dog or a goat (kobolds ride shaggy goats in my games) that looks half-starved. You don't have to have stats for it. If it fights, it does a flat 4 points of damage. This NPC animal will join the adventurers and help fight the kobolds. Have it warm up to one PC in particular--bringing him or her gifts, rubbing against legs, etc. In the second or third room, have the kobolds mercilessly kill the animal as it screams in fear and pain. Have it look with large, watery eyes at the favored PC before it expires. That should get everyone in a good, fightin' mood.