So my last post, about how the blogosphere seems to be picking back up again, got me thinking about old posts. I've never been the most popular blogger in the OSR. Don't really care to be either. JMal dropped Grognardia because of the flack he took for being the most popular guy around. Well, that and the kickstarter fiasco. Anyway, I'm happy to keep my head down and just plug along. Which is why a post that gets more than 2~3 comments for me is a success.
Anyway, scrolling down my list of posts, I saw this one from a year and a half ago discussing the exact same topic I'm on now -- conversion of the West Marches to Classic D&D.
And it has lots of comments.
Among them, FrDave commented that he lets the players run 5E PCs but he uses Labyrinth Lord for everything on his side of the screen.
I already use a few old school systems in my game. XP for GP. 2d6 Morale checks. 2d6 Reaction Roll checks. I randomly flip between 5E and BECMI treasure tables for loot and magic items.
FrDave mentioned that he gave monsters maximum hit points. Even then, though, 5E monsters have a lot more. A max HP goblin in BECMI has 7 hit points. In 5E, that's the average, the max is 12. A BECMI gnoll has a maximum 16 hit points. In 5E, the average is 22, maximum 40. That's not so different, since I tend to use the averages instead of rolling to save time.
However, when we get to even slightly bigger monsters, it gets stranger. An ogre in BECMI has a max of 33hp, while in 5E its average is 59 and maximum is 91. A gorgon has a max of 64hp in BECMI but an average of 114hp and a max of 164hp.
And of course, it's all about the dragons, really, so let's compare.
A small white dragon (6HD) could have 48hp, but the rules say you can give plus or minus 3, so one with 3HD could only have 24hp and one with 9HD could have 72 hit points. If we use the Masters Set/RC, a huge white dragon (12HD but let's bump it up to 15) could have a max of 120. In 5E, a wyrmling white has average 32hp, maximum 50. The young white has an average of 133, and a maximum of 196. We're at the second age category and already the average hp is higher than the very tip top maximum for a white dragon in BECMI. To make a long story short, the 5E adult white has an average of 200/maximum 288hp, while the ancient white has an average of 333/maximum 504hp.
So at low levels, using 5E PCs with Classic D&D behind the screen might work out alright, it's not suitable to long-term campaigns, unless you like the high level PCs mowing their way easily through flights of dragons and squads of giants the way mid-level PCs go through orcs in older editions.
Still, there's an appeal to doing this. Let the players have their 5E PHBs with their tieflings and eldritch knights and skills and feats and more damage dealing spells than you can shake a stick at. Let me use simple, elegant rules behind the screen.
There's one more hitch, though, which I mentioned to FrDave in that thread and he gave a sort of vague answer. That's saving throws. 5E has you roll d20+ability score to roll over a target number. Old school just has you roll d20 vs a target number that changes as you level up.
So even if I use BECMI or LL behind the screen, players making saving throws are going to want to know the DC to beat. When they cast spells, they expect me to have to roll vs their character's DC. As 5E characters get higher in level, and they boost their stats and proficiency bonus, the DC monsters need to beat goes up. But in BECMI, high HD monsters' saves go down. So if the monster only needs a 5 or better to save by BECMI, but needs a 10 or better to save in 5E, it's not really fair, is it? Lots of spell effects will get saved against.
And the spell effects are different. BECMI sleep spell has no save. 5E lets you roll a save every round. A 5E fireball spell's damage is keyed to the spell slot level used to cast it. A BECMI fireball is keyed to the level/HD of the caster. A 12HD monster can cast fireball for 12d6 damage as a 3rd level spell, while a 5E wizard would need to use a 7th level spell slot to get it to do 12d6 damage (or is it 12d8 in 5E? If so, it's still a 4th level spell slot to get roughly equivalent damage instead of a 3rd).
OK, I started this post out thinking I'd found a workable solution. Now I've convinced myself it's not so workable after all. Or at least at low levels it would be workable enough, but just enough hassle that I might as well stick to the full conversion to my house-ruled Classic D&D system. 100%
Thursday, February 28, 2019
That Old Timey Feeling
It's starting to feel like the good old days of 2010-11, when I was most active here on the blog. I'm posting a lot. People are commenting. We're having a discussion across two different blogs (here and BX Blackrazor) and it's interesting!
Thanks to everyone who's commented here and over at JB's blog. I'm appreciating all the input! Even from the spammer trying to say he can cure AIDS! OK, not from that guy.
I posted my homebrew "Classic" conversion of the 5E race set-up yesterday. And I sent the entire booklet (with races, classes, equipment, spells, and rules for high level strongholds/followers) to the players in my West Marches campaign. Most of them have at least seen the post. No comments yet from any of them on the actual rules.
Fingers crossed that Paddy and Ahra like the options presented and give Classic D&D a fair try. Greg, well, I knew I was 99% likely to lose him anyway if I switched. But he may surprise me. He does really enjoy the campaign, which will hopefully have the same feel but move faster since we won't be bogged down with combat...or we will, but we'll have more combats with more creatures than before.
I mean, I'm really enjoying 5E the most in play-by-post format, where I can take the time to analyze the situation, analyze my possible moves/actions/spells, and get into the tactical minutia in a format where I have all the time I need to do that. In face-to-face gaming, if everyone was VERY familiar with the rules/options, I can see it going quickly. In fact, in Dean's online video chat games, it does go fairly quickly. I usually have time to do the analysis for my character while other players are taking their turns.
In my current face-to-face group, with three kids and a few adults who aren't into studying the ins and outs of the rules options and a few who are, each player's turn DRAGS.
Switching to Classic, my hope is that each combat round goes faster, leading to less boredom from the kids, and more attention from everyone at the table. When the group gets large, it's hard to keep everyone focused. Fewer mechanical options (but still unlimited potential actions!) hopefully will help with both of these problems.
Thanks to everyone who's commented here and over at JB's blog. I'm appreciating all the input! Even from the spammer trying to say he can cure AIDS! OK, not from that guy.
I posted my homebrew "Classic" conversion of the 5E race set-up yesterday. And I sent the entire booklet (with races, classes, equipment, spells, and rules for high level strongholds/followers) to the players in my West Marches campaign. Most of them have at least seen the post. No comments yet from any of them on the actual rules.
Fingers crossed that Paddy and Ahra like the options presented and give Classic D&D a fair try. Greg, well, I knew I was 99% likely to lose him anyway if I switched. But he may surprise me. He does really enjoy the campaign, which will hopefully have the same feel but move faster since we won't be bogged down with combat...or we will, but we'll have more combats with more creatures than before.
I mean, I'm really enjoying 5E the most in play-by-post format, where I can take the time to analyze the situation, analyze my possible moves/actions/spells, and get into the tactical minutia in a format where I have all the time I need to do that. In face-to-face gaming, if everyone was VERY familiar with the rules/options, I can see it going quickly. In fact, in Dean's online video chat games, it does go fairly quickly. I usually have time to do the analysis for my character while other players are taking their turns.
In my current face-to-face group, with three kids and a few adults who aren't into studying the ins and outs of the rules options and a few who are, each player's turn DRAGS.
Switching to Classic, my hope is that each combat round goes faster, leading to less boredom from the kids, and more attention from everyone at the table. When the group gets large, it's hard to keep everyone focused. Fewer mechanical options (but still unlimited potential actions!) hopefully will help with both of these problems.
Wednesday, February 27, 2019
New Title for Sale: Expert Monsters Set 3
For those who've been purchasing my full color fold-up paper minis made with public domain art for Classic D&D, I've got my newest set available. Expert Monsters 3 covers all the creatures that were in BX but left out of the Mentzer revision. The Acolyte, Medium and Veteran round out the Bandit as NPC versions of PC classes, there is a sea dragon, whales, woolly rhinoceros...plus all the cool dinosaurs and monsters from Isle of Dread!
Allosaurus (favorite dinosaur of mine!), aranea, natives with lots of leader types including the zombie master, phanaton and rakasta, etc.! The kopru is a favorite of mine in this set. It took some kit-bashing of various public domain images, and a bit of retouching, but I think it looks suitably Lovecraftian and disturbing (for a small image anyway).
If you run BX instead of BECMI, you're missing a few monsters from my previous sets. Now you can get them. And if you want to run Isle of Dread in any rule set, this has those special IoD monsters you need.
As usual, every page uses layers, so if you want to only print certain monsters, you can switch off the ones you don't want to print and save ink.
You can purchase it here for the low, low price of $3.
When I start working on the next set, I think I'm going to go with some Flying Swordsmen/Chanbara/OA type characters. I'll probably start working on the Companion Set monsters too, since quite a few in this set are in the Companion.
Allosaurus (favorite dinosaur of mine!), aranea, natives with lots of leader types including the zombie master, phanaton and rakasta, etc.! The kopru is a favorite of mine in this set. It took some kit-bashing of various public domain images, and a bit of retouching, but I think it looks suitably Lovecraftian and disturbing (for a small image anyway).
If you run BX instead of BECMI, you're missing a few monsters from my previous sets. Now you can get them. And if you want to run Isle of Dread in any rule set, this has those special IoD monsters you need.
As usual, every page uses layers, so if you want to only print certain monsters, you can switch off the ones you don't want to print and save ink.
You can purchase it here for the low, low price of $3.
When I start working on the next set, I think I'm going to go with some Flying Swordsmen/Chanbara/OA type characters. I'll probably start working on the Companion Set monsters too, since quite a few in this set are in the Companion.
Tuesday, February 26, 2019
Treasures, Serpents, and Ruins
So I've been talking a lot about converting my West Marches campaign. And at first, I was thinking to really go Classic D&D - just the classic 7 character classes, nothing else.
But I'm sitting on a homebrew document that's been slowly evolving over the past however many years. You see, I like to run Classic D&D, but I also enjoy the class options presented in AD&D through 5E.
So I started out just by making home brew versions of the 3E and AD&D classes (VERY early on I posted a few, the Barbarian and Druid for sure, maybe the Bard and Half Orc race-as-class classes as well -- my third post ever on this blog, way back in 2009, was about it).
Most recently, I decided that again AD&D style separate race and class was desirable. Along with multiclass options for demi-humans. So I tweaked my own versions of the classic and not so classic races, adding Dragonborn and Changelings (my version of Tieflings but not quite) to the mix (half-elves, half-orcs and gnomes were already there) because my son was formerly playing a Dragonborn and at least three people have decided to play Tieflings in the West Marches. Yes, I've been thinking of this switch for a long time as well.
And I've given the most recent version of these rules the spiffy name Treasures, Serpents, and Ruins.
I'm not planning to release it as a retro-clone, or at least not yet. I'd probably have to file off some more serial numbers to do that. But, because it's relevant, I thought I'd post an excerpt showing how I've modified the races to fit easily into Classic D&D. Here's the excerpt:
But I'm sitting on a homebrew document that's been slowly evolving over the past however many years. You see, I like to run Classic D&D, but I also enjoy the class options presented in AD&D through 5E.
So I started out just by making home brew versions of the 3E and AD&D classes (VERY early on I posted a few, the Barbarian and Druid for sure, maybe the Bard and Half Orc race-as-class classes as well -- my third post ever on this blog, way back in 2009, was about it).
Most recently, I decided that again AD&D style separate race and class was desirable. Along with multiclass options for demi-humans. So I tweaked my own versions of the classic and not so classic races, adding Dragonborn and Changelings (my version of Tieflings but not quite) to the mix (half-elves, half-orcs and gnomes were already there) because my son was formerly playing a Dragonborn and at least three people have decided to play Tieflings in the West Marches. Yes, I've been thinking of this switch for a long time as well.
And I've given the most recent version of these rules the spiffy name Treasures, Serpents, and Ruins.
I'm not planning to release it as a retro-clone, or at least not yet. I'd probably have to file off some more serial numbers to do that. But, because it's relevant, I thought I'd post an excerpt showing how I've modified the races to fit easily into Classic D&D. Here's the excerpt:
|
Allowed
Classes by Race and Maximum Level
|
||||||||||||
|
|
Acrobat
|
Assassin
|
Bard
|
Berserker
|
Cavalier
|
Cleric
|
Druid
|
Fighter
|
Illusionist
|
Magic-User
|
Ranger
|
Thief
|
|
Human
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
U
|
|
Dwarf
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
8
|
6
|
8
|
N
|
12
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
6
|
|
Elf
|
N
|
N
|
12
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
10
|
N
|
10
|
N
|
8
|
|
Halfling
|
8
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
6
|
8
|
N
|
N
|
10
|
12
|
|
Gnome
|
N
|
N
|
8
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
6
|
12
|
N
|
N
|
8
|
|
Half-Elf
|
N
|
6
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
6
|
10
|
8
|
N
|
8
|
8
|
10
|
|
Half-Orc
|
6
|
12
|
N
|
10
|
6
|
6
|
N
|
10
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
6
|
|
Dragonborn
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
10
|
N
|
10
|
N
|
8
|
N
|
8
|
|
Changeling
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
N
|
12
|
N
|
6
|
8
|
6
|
N
|
6
|
Human
Minimum
Scores: None.
Allowed
Classes: All.
Multiclass
Combinations: None.
Survival:
When rolling for hit points at levels 2 through 9, human characters
may roll twice and take the better result.
Dual
Class: A human can switch character classes, stopping advancement
in their original class and beginning again as a 1st level
character of the new class. The character must be at least 3rd
level but no higher than 8th level before switching
classes, must have a score of 13 or more in each prime requisite of
the new class, plus meet any ability score requirements. The
character retains all abilities gained in the original class,
including hit points, saves and XP. The character gains a new XP
score of 0, but gains no XP in the new class if the old class
abilities (other than hit points) are used. Once the character gains
3rd level in the new class, all abilities of the previous
class may be used without penalty.
Languages:
Humans can speak Common and any one language of their choice.
Dwarf
Minimum
Scores: 9 Constitution.
Allowed
Classes: Berserker, Cavalier, Cleric, Fighter, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Cleric/Fighter, Cleric/Thief, Fighter/Thief.
Senses:
Dwarves have infravision (can see heat signatures: hot is red, cold
is blue) up to 60' when in darkness. Room temperature objects can be
seen dimly, but reading is impossible. When listening for noises,
Dwarves have a 2 in 6 chance of success.
Detection:
When in buildings or underground, dwarves can attempt to detect the
following features, each with a 2 in 6 chance of success (a search
takes 1 Turn)
-
Sloping Passages
-
Shifting Walls
-
Architectural Traps
-
New Constructions
Toughness:
Dwarves are resistant to magic and poison, gaining a +4 bonus to all
saving throws.
Languages:
Dwarves can speak Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, and Kobold.
Restriction:
Dwarves may not use two-handed swords, pole arms, or longbows due to
their size.
Elf
Minimum
Scores: 9 Intelligence.
Allowed
Classes: Bard, Fighter, Magic-User, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Bard/Fighter, Bard/Thief, Fighter/Magic-User,
Fighter/Thief, Magic-User/Thief.
Senses:
Elves have infravision up to 60' when in darkness. When listening for
noises, Elves have a 2 in 6 chance of success.
Detection:
When searching for secret doors, Elves have a 2 in 6 chance of
success (a search takes 1 Turn).
Immunity:
Elves are immune to the paralyzing touch of ghouls. Other forms of
paralysis work normally against Elves.
Languages:
Elves can speak Common, Elven, Gnoll, Hobgoblin, and Orc.
Halfling
Minimum
Scores: 9 Dexterity, 9 Constitution.
Allowed
Classes: Acrobat, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Acrobat/Fighter, Druid/Ranger, Fighter/Thief,
Ranger/Thief.
Senses:
Halfling vision is equal to a human's, but they have keen ears. When
listening for noises, Halflings have a 2 in 6 chance of success.
Combat
Bonuses: Due to their small size, Halflings gain a +2 bonus to AC
when fighting creatures of ogre size or larger. All Halflings gain a
+1 bonus to attacks with all ranged weapons, including thrown
weapons.
Hiding:
Halflings are adept at disappearing. When outdoors in natural
surroundings, they can hide with a 9 in 10 chance of success. When
indoors, they can hide with a 2 in 6 chance of success.
Luck:
Halflings have incredible luck, gaining a +4 bonus to all saving
throws.
Languages:
Halflings can speak Common, Halfling, and any one language of their
choice.
Restriction:
Halflings may not use large weapons (battle axe, two-handed sword,
longbow, any pole
arm) except for bastard
swords, which they must wield two-handed.
Gnome
Minimum
Scores: 9 Constitution.
Allowed
Classes: Bard, Fighter, Illusionist, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Bard/Thief, Fighter/Illusionist, Fighter/Thief,
Illusionist/Thief.
Senses:
Gnomes have infravision up to 90' when in darkness. Gnomish hearing
is equivalent to that of a human.
Beast
Speech: Gnomes can communicate simple messages with small birds
and rodents. They have good relations with those that live near their
homes, receiving warnings or sending messages to other Gnomes.
Combat
Bonuses: Due to their small size, Gnomes gain a +2 bonus to AC
when fighting creatures of ogre size or larger. All Gnomes gain a +1
bonus to attacks against goblins and kobolds.
Innate
Magic: Gnomes have a magical connection to the earth, and gain a
+2 bonus to all saving throws because of their magical nature.
Languages:
Gnomes can speak Common, Gnome, Dwarf, Kobold and Goblin.
Restriction:
Gnomes may not use large weapons (battle axe, two-handed sword,
longbow, any pole arm) except for bastard swords, which they must
wield two-handed.
Half-Elf
Minimum
Scores: None.
Allowed
Classes: Assassin, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Magic-User, Ranger,
Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Cleric/Fighter, Cleric/Fighter/Magic-User,
Cleric/Magic-User, Cleric/Magic-User/Thief, Cleric/Ranger,
Fighter/Thief, Magic-User/Thief, Ranger/Thief.
Senses:
Half-Elves have infravision up to 60' when in darkness. When
listening for noises, Half-Elves have a 2 in 6 chance of success.
Versatility:
A Half-elf character can choose to either have the Human Survival
ability, or Elven Detection ability.
Languages:
Half-Elves can speak Common, Elven, and any two languages of their
choice.
Half-Orc
Minimum
Scores: 9 Strength or 9 Dexterity.
Allowed
Classes: Acrobat, Assassin, Berserker, Cavalier, Cleric, Fighter,
Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Acrobat/Fighter, Assassin/Cleric, Assassin/Fighter,
Cleric/Fighter, Fighter/Thief.
Senses:
Half-Orcs have infravision up to 60' when in darkness. Half-Orc
hearing is equivalent to that of a human.
Disguise:
Half-Orcs can try to pass themselves off as fully Human or fully Orc.
They have a 4 in 6 chance of success when attempting to do so in the
community in which they were raised, and a 2 in 6 chance in the other
community.
Languages:
Half-Orcs begin knowing Common, Orc, Giant, and any one language of
their choice.
Dragonborn
Minimum
Scores: 9 Strength, 9 Charisma.
Allowed
Classes: Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Cleric/Fighter, Cleric/Magic-User, Cleric/Thief,
Fighter/Magic-User, Fighter/Thief, Magic-User/Thief.
Resistance:
Dragonborn gain resistance (-1 point of damage per die, +2 to saves)
against any spells or breath weapons of one type of energy depending
on their draconic heritage: cold, acid, poison gas, lightning, fire.
Breath
Weapon: Dragonborn have a breath weapon attack of the energy type
they resist, usable once per day. The attack deals 2d4 damage.
Creatures in the area may Save vs. Dragon Breath for ½ damage.
-
Cold/Fire: 15'×10' cone.
-
Acid/Lighting: 5'×25' line.
-
Poison Gas: 10'×10' cube.
Languages:
Dragonborn can speak Common and Dragon.
Changeling
Minimum
Scores: 9 Wisdom.
Allowed
Classes: Cleric, Fighter, Illusionist, Magic-User, Thief.
Multiclass
Combinations: Cleric/Fighter, Cleric/Illusionist, Cleric/Thief,
Illusionist/Thief, Magic-User/Thief.
Senses:
Changelings have infravision up to 60' when in darkness. Changeling
hearing is equivalent to that of a human.
Heritage:
A Changeling character can choose to be descended from angels, demons
or faeries.
-
Angel: cast light 1/day.
-
Demon: cast darkness 1/day.
-
Faerie: cast cause fear 1/day.
Languages:
Changelings can speak Common and any one language of their choice.
Monday, February 25, 2019
Answers for JB
In my previous post, I mentioned that I'm wavering in my idea of converting my West Marches campaign to Classic D&D/BX/BECMI rules because not every player is on board with the idea. JB of the BX Blackrazor blog posted a few questions to clarify my feelings on this.
Here are his questions (in bold) and my answers.
1) You say you might lose one, and possibly three players over a conversion. Have your players actually expressed disdain for the conversion and a desire to "not play?"
I started the campaign with the original West Marches idea of not having a solid play group, but just running for whoever showed up to game. Of course, over time, the core coalesced, especially since my son was one player and two other players bring their daughters. Now it's become the "family" game.
Of the current regular players, my son and one father/daughter combo are cool with the changes. The father has some trouble keeping up with all the mechanics, and his daughter is just there to have fun, meaning he has to keep up with the mechanics for two very different characters to help his daughter (who is only 8 going on 9). I think Denis (Gnome Rogue) and Renee (Fairy Princess [reskinned Tiefling Warlock]) won't mind simpler characters. Both tend to prefer narrative interaction over mechanical interaction anyway.
A regular who recently stepped away due to starting grad school says she's also fine with old school gaming when she comes back. Another guy who played early on may be enticed to come back since he prefers old school games anyway.
One player, Greg, has always been upfront about preferring new school games to old school games. We first gamed together in a Pathfinder game, and I remember him saying "Why would I want to play in another game when I have Pathfinder?" Of course, then 5E came out, and it still has enough of what he likes (character building mechanical options, the optimization metagame) to keep him happy. Most likely nothing I do will keep him around, which is too bad, because he also is one of the strongest players for getting into character and making his characters interesting. He could still do that, but seems to feel (my speculation here) that he needs mechanical effects to back up the characterization. Greg currently plays a Tiefling Sorcerer.
The other player in question is Paddy, who is the other father. He doesn't have much experience with old school gaming, if I remember right. He started at the tail end of 2nd edition AD&D and was big into 3E. He says he's not so much against playing an old school game, it's just that (his words) he's playing in two other 5E games right now, and doesn't want to have to learn a new system. But he's enjoying this game and his daughter is also enjoying it, so he is willing to give it a try, just with massive reservations. Paddy plays the Human Cleric (war domain) while his daughter Ahra plays the Elf Fighter (battlemaster archer).
So one is disdainful of old school play, one thinks it's a hassle to convert, and the third depends on the second for access to the game and I'm not sure how she'll take to losing her cool character powers.
2) Assuming they have is it based solely on their inability to continue playing the race-class combo they desire?
I guess I answered this above. For Greg, yes, but not only. It's the lack of defined skills/abilities/mechanics, the inability to craft the character mechanically to taste.
For Paddy, no, it's just the perceived unfamiliarity of the rules.
I'm not sure if Paddy has asked Ahra about it (I'll message him) but I suspect that in her case, if she is unhappy with the change, losing her "superpowers" will be why.
3) If not, is the desire to convert these strange classes ("battle archers," tieflings, etc.) simply YOU wanting to keep a certain continuity to your campaign, or are you just trying to head off anticipated problems before they arise.
Both to be honest. We've had a few character deaths, a few players deciding to try a new character concept, etc. in the campaign. Most players are attached to their PCs but willing to try something new. So while I could just tell everyone to roll up a new character using the new rules, that would probably kill the campaign, even if we started at higher levels. Maybe not, but I'm afraid it would.
Also, as you say, I have a desire to keep as much continuity in the campaign as I can. I think the transition will go more smoothly if they can keep the personalities they're playing and as close as possible the roles/skill sets they bring to the party.
Part of it, though, is that I also enjoy character customization. I've been working on a Classic D&D set of house rules that is basically BECMI but with separate race and class, and simplified versions of most of the popular AD&D and 3E/5E classes not in BECMI.
The big reason to convert, from my perspective, is to make prepping the game faster and easier, as well as running the game. I've spent I don't know how many hours converting classic modules to 5E to use in the campaign. I could save a lot of time by converting. During play, since I'm still not an expert on 5E and most encounters are based off of random encounter charts, I spend a lot of time leafing through the Monster Manual at the table. Converting to Classic would allow me to more easily keep track of monster stats, and fewer fiddly special abilities for monsters. Converting will allow me to speed up prep and play.
Using my house rules to allow the 5E races to remain, and to still have Rangers and Bards and stuff, shouldn't be a problem, since I've already done the work to streamline the classes/races for Classic play.
4) Finally, what is the current experience level of the player characters in your 5E game? That makes a difference for any conversion attempt!
All the characters are currently 5th level, I think. One may still be 4th level. My son's Half-Orc Paladin is only 150xp away from 6th level (he's the most regular attendee, obviously) -- but he's also in America for the next six months so everyone else has a chance to catch up.
I've already got a rule in place that when characters die, or if the player wants to roll up a new PC to replace the old one, they keep their level but start at the minimum for the level. I'll keep that for the conversion, so we'll need to adjust some XP totals to fit. I'll probably figure the percentage of advancement they've made to the next level and give them an equal percentage towards their new level once everyone's decided on what to play.
Regardless of the answers to these questions (and any possible follow-up on my part), one thing to consider is this: if your have experienced players...i.e. players who have experience playing early edition D&D...it may be that they WANT to play 5E, for its extra bells and whistles. They might not want to convert at all! I know DMs who prefer LL/BX but who run 5E play who simply prune the extra "dross" from their campaigns, and that might actually be an easier way to get to the simpler game you want...at least, if your players are unwilling to budge.
Again, in Greg's case, that's true. He's "moved on" from old school play and doesn't want to go back. For Paddy, it seems like he's willing to give it a shot if it's not too much of a hassle.
I've already kept this campaign fairly simple. The players are limited to the PHB only for races, classes, archetypes, and spells. And on my side, I already use a few tricks from BECMI (2d6 reaction/morale rolls for example). I could limit future PCs to the downloadable Basic Rules pdf options, but then I'd still have to deal with 5E mechanics for prep time and while running the game.
I'm not adverse to stealing some good ideas, though, like advantage/disadvantage, and I'm not adverse to grandfathering in SOME of the 5E abilities for existing characters. But for new players or replacement characters I'll make them stick to my house-rules or by the book Classic D&D/LL characters.
Here are his questions (in bold) and my answers.
1) You say you might lose one, and possibly three players over a conversion. Have your players actually expressed disdain for the conversion and a desire to "not play?"
I started the campaign with the original West Marches idea of not having a solid play group, but just running for whoever showed up to game. Of course, over time, the core coalesced, especially since my son was one player and two other players bring their daughters. Now it's become the "family" game.
Of the current regular players, my son and one father/daughter combo are cool with the changes. The father has some trouble keeping up with all the mechanics, and his daughter is just there to have fun, meaning he has to keep up with the mechanics for two very different characters to help his daughter (who is only 8 going on 9). I think Denis (Gnome Rogue) and Renee (Fairy Princess [reskinned Tiefling Warlock]) won't mind simpler characters. Both tend to prefer narrative interaction over mechanical interaction anyway.
A regular who recently stepped away due to starting grad school says she's also fine with old school gaming when she comes back. Another guy who played early on may be enticed to come back since he prefers old school games anyway.
One player, Greg, has always been upfront about preferring new school games to old school games. We first gamed together in a Pathfinder game, and I remember him saying "Why would I want to play in another game when I have Pathfinder?" Of course, then 5E came out, and it still has enough of what he likes (character building mechanical options, the optimization metagame) to keep him happy. Most likely nothing I do will keep him around, which is too bad, because he also is one of the strongest players for getting into character and making his characters interesting. He could still do that, but seems to feel (my speculation here) that he needs mechanical effects to back up the characterization. Greg currently plays a Tiefling Sorcerer.
The other player in question is Paddy, who is the other father. He doesn't have much experience with old school gaming, if I remember right. He started at the tail end of 2nd edition AD&D and was big into 3E. He says he's not so much against playing an old school game, it's just that (his words) he's playing in two other 5E games right now, and doesn't want to have to learn a new system. But he's enjoying this game and his daughter is also enjoying it, so he is willing to give it a try, just with massive reservations. Paddy plays the Human Cleric (war domain) while his daughter Ahra plays the Elf Fighter (battlemaster archer).
So one is disdainful of old school play, one thinks it's a hassle to convert, and the third depends on the second for access to the game and I'm not sure how she'll take to losing her cool character powers.
2) Assuming they have is it based solely on their inability to continue playing the race-class combo they desire?
I guess I answered this above. For Greg, yes, but not only. It's the lack of defined skills/abilities/mechanics, the inability to craft the character mechanically to taste.
For Paddy, no, it's just the perceived unfamiliarity of the rules.
I'm not sure if Paddy has asked Ahra about it (I'll message him) but I suspect that in her case, if she is unhappy with the change, losing her "superpowers" will be why.
3) If not, is the desire to convert these strange classes ("battle archers," tieflings, etc.) simply YOU wanting to keep a certain continuity to your campaign, or are you just trying to head off anticipated problems before they arise.
Both to be honest. We've had a few character deaths, a few players deciding to try a new character concept, etc. in the campaign. Most players are attached to their PCs but willing to try something new. So while I could just tell everyone to roll up a new character using the new rules, that would probably kill the campaign, even if we started at higher levels. Maybe not, but I'm afraid it would.
Also, as you say, I have a desire to keep as much continuity in the campaign as I can. I think the transition will go more smoothly if they can keep the personalities they're playing and as close as possible the roles/skill sets they bring to the party.
Part of it, though, is that I also enjoy character customization. I've been working on a Classic D&D set of house rules that is basically BECMI but with separate race and class, and simplified versions of most of the popular AD&D and 3E/5E classes not in BECMI.
The big reason to convert, from my perspective, is to make prepping the game faster and easier, as well as running the game. I've spent I don't know how many hours converting classic modules to 5E to use in the campaign. I could save a lot of time by converting. During play, since I'm still not an expert on 5E and most encounters are based off of random encounter charts, I spend a lot of time leafing through the Monster Manual at the table. Converting to Classic would allow me to more easily keep track of monster stats, and fewer fiddly special abilities for monsters. Converting will allow me to speed up prep and play.
Using my house rules to allow the 5E races to remain, and to still have Rangers and Bards and stuff, shouldn't be a problem, since I've already done the work to streamline the classes/races for Classic play.
4) Finally, what is the current experience level of the player characters in your 5E game? That makes a difference for any conversion attempt!
All the characters are currently 5th level, I think. One may still be 4th level. My son's Half-Orc Paladin is only 150xp away from 6th level (he's the most regular attendee, obviously) -- but he's also in America for the next six months so everyone else has a chance to catch up.
I've already got a rule in place that when characters die, or if the player wants to roll up a new PC to replace the old one, they keep their level but start at the minimum for the level. I'll keep that for the conversion, so we'll need to adjust some XP totals to fit. I'll probably figure the percentage of advancement they've made to the next level and give them an equal percentage towards their new level once everyone's decided on what to play.
Regardless of the answers to these questions (and any possible follow-up on my part), one thing to consider is this: if your have experienced players...i.e. players who have experience playing early edition D&D...it may be that they WANT to play 5E, for its extra bells and whistles. They might not want to convert at all! I know DMs who prefer LL/BX but who run 5E play who simply prune the extra "dross" from their campaigns, and that might actually be an easier way to get to the simpler game you want...at least, if your players are unwilling to budge.
Again, in Greg's case, that's true. He's "moved on" from old school play and doesn't want to go back. For Paddy, it seems like he's willing to give it a shot if it's not too much of a hassle.
I've already kept this campaign fairly simple. The players are limited to the PHB only for races, classes, archetypes, and spells. And on my side, I already use a few tricks from BECMI (2d6 reaction/morale rolls for example). I could limit future PCs to the downloadable Basic Rules pdf options, but then I'd still have to deal with 5E mechanics for prep time and while running the game.
I'm not adverse to stealing some good ideas, though, like advantage/disadvantage, and I'm not adverse to grandfathering in SOME of the 5E abilities for existing characters. But for new players or replacement characters I'll make them stick to my house-rules or by the book Classic D&D/LL characters.
Sunday, February 24, 2019
Second Thoughts, and Minor Perks
So the other day, I posted about converting the West Marches game to BECMI/Labyrinth Lord. And I may lose 3 players over it. Maybe only one. We'll see.
But it did get me thinking about something that might help me lure in the 5E fans to classic D&D.
First of all, when we convert the characters, I'm going to try to twist the rules as much as possible to keep the characters similar to their 5E versions by giving them some minor perks.
For example, one player not sure about the conversion is playing a Human War Cleric, and he has a flaming longsword (won from Warduke no less). As a War Cleric in 5E (for those unfamiliar), he can use any weapon, gets to make bonus attacks X times per day equal to his Wis modifier, and instead of using Turn Undead he can give himself a +10 bonus to one attack.
So first of all, ignoring the Cleric weapon restrictions for this character is easy. Just let him keep using the sword.
Second, I'm considering giving him a minor perk to go along with it, possibly in the form of a custom magic item. The minor perk would allow him to either keep the bonus attacks thing or the +10 to hit once per day thing. I'll let him decide which. Probably in the form of an enchanted holy symbol.
His daughter, who would also obviously be leaving the game if he did, is playing an Elf Fighter Battlemaster archer. I've already got a house rule for Fighters that would allow her to be a better archer if she chooses it (adding Dex bonus to damage as an 'archery style' Fighter). But I'm sure she'll miss the Battlemaster's Superiority Dice system where she can do extra damage and inflict various conditions/penalties on opponents with her strikes. So again, a minor perk for her might be that her enchanted bow allows her to replicate one of her 5E maneuvers 3 times per day or something.
Alternately, I could have her use the Elf class, and try to get her a spellbook that would somewhat replicate her maneuvers through spells (meaning cause fear, normally a Cleric spell, might be in her MU spellbook since one of her maneuvers makes opponents save or run/cower in fear).
The third player is playing a Tiefling Sorcerer. I've again got a homebrewed "changeling" race that could be used (letting some of these converting characters have race and class separate). And instead of the Sorcerer spellcasting system, he'd need to use the Magic-User (Wizard) spellcasting system, but as a minor perk I'd let him use Prestidigitation effects and maybe a d4 damage at will magic beam attack since without that he'd just be buying and throwing daggers anyway.
We'll see if this can entice them to stick with the campaign. If it doesn't, I'm going to seriously reconsider sticking with 5E, and just starting up a new Classic D&D campaign on the side.
But it did get me thinking about something that might help me lure in the 5E fans to classic D&D.
First of all, when we convert the characters, I'm going to try to twist the rules as much as possible to keep the characters similar to their 5E versions by giving them some minor perks.
For example, one player not sure about the conversion is playing a Human War Cleric, and he has a flaming longsword (won from Warduke no less). As a War Cleric in 5E (for those unfamiliar), he can use any weapon, gets to make bonus attacks X times per day equal to his Wis modifier, and instead of using Turn Undead he can give himself a +10 bonus to one attack.
So first of all, ignoring the Cleric weapon restrictions for this character is easy. Just let him keep using the sword.
Second, I'm considering giving him a minor perk to go along with it, possibly in the form of a custom magic item. The minor perk would allow him to either keep the bonus attacks thing or the +10 to hit once per day thing. I'll let him decide which. Probably in the form of an enchanted holy symbol.
His daughter, who would also obviously be leaving the game if he did, is playing an Elf Fighter Battlemaster archer. I've already got a house rule for Fighters that would allow her to be a better archer if she chooses it (adding Dex bonus to damage as an 'archery style' Fighter). But I'm sure she'll miss the Battlemaster's Superiority Dice system where she can do extra damage and inflict various conditions/penalties on opponents with her strikes. So again, a minor perk for her might be that her enchanted bow allows her to replicate one of her 5E maneuvers 3 times per day or something.
Alternately, I could have her use the Elf class, and try to get her a spellbook that would somewhat replicate her maneuvers through spells (meaning cause fear, normally a Cleric spell, might be in her MU spellbook since one of her maneuvers makes opponents save or run/cower in fear).
The third player is playing a Tiefling Sorcerer. I've again got a homebrewed "changeling" race that could be used (letting some of these converting characters have race and class separate). And instead of the Sorcerer spellcasting system, he'd need to use the Magic-User (Wizard) spellcasting system, but as a minor perk I'd let him use Prestidigitation effects and maybe a d4 damage at will magic beam attack since without that he'd just be buying and throwing daggers anyway.
We'll see if this can entice them to stick with the campaign. If it doesn't, I'm going to seriously reconsider sticking with 5E, and just starting up a new Classic D&D campaign on the side.
Friday, February 22, 2019
A new age begins
So Google+ is going away soon. It killed the blog scene, sucking the oxygen out of the OSR blogosphere. And people are wondering if the OSR will survive its nexus of interaction disappearing.
But remember, the OSR was around for years before Google+. It will be around after.
Zak S. is out. I read his stuff occasionally, and he had a lot of good ideas. But he was also pretty terrible to certain people. Yes, he was a highly visible figure in the OSR for many years. Now, he's persona non grata. I won't miss him. And the OSR will go on without him.
I'm going to be working on some academic papers over the next several months, trying to publish the one I have recently revised plus two more. But I'll also be trying to maintain the blog here more. I think if the OSR reverts to blogs and forums it will be better anyway. There were a lot of good conversations on G+, but the format is too ephemeral for my tastes (I've been saying that for years, I know). I tried MeWe, and it's got the same ephemeral nature of G+ so I doubt I'll use it much. Hell, I mostly just used G+ for promoting this blog and trying to sell my stuff anyway. MeWe will likely be the same. And if I get on Discord or any of the other places people are going to, ditto.
Now, here are my potential RPG related projects for this year:
But remember, the OSR was around for years before Google+. It will be around after.
Zak S. is out. I read his stuff occasionally, and he had a lot of good ideas. But he was also pretty terrible to certain people. Yes, he was a highly visible figure in the OSR for many years. Now, he's persona non grata. I won't miss him. And the OSR will go on without him.
I'm going to be working on some academic papers over the next several months, trying to publish the one I have recently revised plus two more. But I'll also be trying to maintain the blog here more. I think if the OSR reverts to blogs and forums it will be better anyway. There were a lot of good conversations on G+, but the format is too ephemeral for my tastes (I've been saying that for years, I know). I tried MeWe, and it's got the same ephemeral nature of G+ so I doubt I'll use it much. Hell, I mostly just used G+ for promoting this blog and trying to sell my stuff anyway. MeWe will likely be the same. And if I get on Discord or any of the other places people are going to, ditto.
Now, here are my potential RPG related projects for this year:
- Converting my West Marches 5E game to Labyrinth Lord. Some players won't like it, but I'm ready to get back to basics. Fewer classes, fewer spells (but often more powerful in effect), and a lower power level; but hopefully more action/interaction.
- Starting an online Chanbara campaign. Probably with the usual Hangouts/Roll20 gang (Busan Gaming Group plus any of Dean's 5E gamers I can lure into it). If any blog readers are willing to make time on Saturday evenings East Asia/Australia time (Saturday morning North America, midday Europe/Africa), let me know.
- Finishing up my next set of paper minis (just need to format the book then get it online). It has the Isle of Dread module monsters plus the creatures in BX that aren't in BECMI's Basic and Expert books.
- Moving on to the Mentzer Companion Set for the next set of paper minis? Or making a set for OA/Flying Swordsman/Chanbara? Or AD&D monsters? Or AD&D/later edition character types?
- Releasing the dungeons/locations of the Chanbara game, plus some for more standard D&D type play, as cheap modules for sale through Hidden Treasure Books.